Can or will Judo or Sambo see a rise in MMA?

[ecrec08]

Since BJJ first took MMA by storm because of the Gracie's, more and more people have learned jiu-jitsu. This has led to most fighters being able to defend submissions, taking some threat away from the bottom guard, and more importance once again placed on positioning. So, do you think that arts like Judo and Sambo will be incorporated more often into MMA?

Sure, there's plenty of fighters who know Judo. Hell, Joe Stevenson knows Judo. That doesn't mean we see guys like him utilize it. So do you think that these two arts will be incorporated into MMA more in the future, now that positioning is starting to become a higher priority again? We've seen that both in the right hands can be extremely effective, there is just less practice of the two as compared to BJJ and wrestling, so less quality competitors are there. I think if more MMA competitors would give these arts a chance, they would see a lot of success.

I understand that the guard is not dead, plenty of threads on this and how its just trending down right now, but because of submission defense and GnP, positioning seems to be the trend of the top level grapplers.

Thoughts on the future of Judo and Sambo in MMA?

[Doctor Gonzo]

from my understanding Judo would be way too hard in no gi with gloves on to be used in the effective manner it is used in a kimono, someone would have to go through with developing no gi Judo and then you would have to rely on what little grips you could get with MMA gloves on in someone with just fight shorts on

[knoxpk]

Originally Posted by ecrec08

Since BJJ first took MMA by storm because of the Gracie's, more and more people have learned jiu-jitsu. This has led to most fighters being able to defend submissions, taking some threat away from the bottom guard, and more importance once again placed on positioning. So, do you think that arts like Judo and Sambo will be incorporated more often into MMA?

Sure, there's plenty of fighters who know Judo. Hell, Joe Stevenson knows Judo. That doesn't mean we see guys like him utilize it. So do you think that these two arts will be incorporated into MMA more in the future, now that positioning is starting to become a higher priority again? We've seen that both in the right hands can be extremely effective, there is just less practice of the two as compared to BJJ and wrestling, so less quality competitors are there. I think if more MMA competitors would give these arts a chance, they would see a lot of success.

I understand that the guard is not dead, plenty of threads on this and how its just trending down right now, but because of submission defense and GnP, positioning seems to be the trend of the top level grapplers.

Thoughts on the future of Judo and Sambo in MMA?

I actually have a theory and I am sure I am WAYYYYY off..but it is based on speculation and the evolution of MMA as I have seen it in just 20 years now.

We saw Judo and wrestling as 2 of the most prominent grappling sports around, then came BJJ.

But if you rewind we are all aware that before Judo and before wrestling there was Jujitsu and pankration. Both of these were styles that included the submission as well as strikes. Yet later wrestling and Judo both evolved but even though Judo still has the submission a pin was as big a part of a victory in Judo as submissions, maybe more.

Why is this significant? Well my theory is that while submissions from the bottom are a need that after some time fighters learn to defend submissions via superior position...i.e.. pins...So my lame theory is that the rules favored working for the pin from the top position and takedowns as well as defense were the priority.

The only problem with this method is that in the absence of guard fighting(or limitation) and the absence of frequent submission attempts that the defense is forgotten....fast forward to UFC I and Pride...reintroduce, submission guys dominate and now 20 years later the success rate from bottom guard subs have dropped against well trained fighters and BOOM takedowns and top control have proven their merit again...


I know it is far fetched but I think there is some sound logic in my line of thinking.

[Bryan Lee]

Judo will always be Judo. It will be an Olympic Sport for the next 20 years or so then I think it will disappear as nobody wants to do it anymore. Its like fencing in that way, its become all caught up in itself and completely lost touch with its roots and reality.

Sambo had a good chance to take off but it's missed its opportunity. Its remains huge in Russia but thats the end of the story. Even now the Russians are transitioning to MMA and have been for a few years. In America its limited to one national organization and the international organization is completely messed up. The International Org. is totally focused on Sambo becoming an Olympic Sport and fancy parties, makes me want to puke. The national organization started off really good but just cannot compete with BJJ and Grappling. Then there is all the infighting and power plays going on, its a big disappointment.

If anything you can look forward to Wrestling dominating the MMA scene as there are huge amounts of wrestlers in America, far more than BJJ folks. We are also seeing a transition from Americans looking to outside sources for individual MMA skills to Americans having all the answers themselves.

Now that MMA is the big show we will start seeing fighters call themselves MMA fighters who practice BJJ and not BJJ Guys who Fight MMA. This is a big transition, just look at how NoGi has taken off. Now watch for the weekend Boxers to become weekend MMA fighters. Watch for the fitness guys and girls who do not have any intentions to ever fight join the newest phenomena, Executive MMA.

Back to the original question, you will always see some things you could call Judo or Sambo mixed into a MMA Fight but I doubt you will be hearing Joe Rogan or any other announcer referring to any move as being Judo or Sambo. Basically we can just wait awhile then turn off the lights for the last time as both groups and their vocabulary fade away into history, becoming even more obscure than they already are.

[Q mystic]

thee ONLY 'legitimate' former hi-comp grappler from any of the 3 styles(judo,wrestling or bjj) to hold a p4p ranking right now is a former nat medalist and world cup medalist in judo.

I forgot, he isnt human. Or judo

So, take all of the former nat-plus wrestlers, bjjers and judoka that have fought mma. See how many of each, their record and their rankng and compare that list to the rest of each. Win percentage then, if not just p4p at the time like the above paragraph.

You will then see stats on 'chance' to be a winner in mma and I think you will find judo has superceded.

Sry. BJ PENN is p4p and also a world bjj champ.

[BJJ Heroes]

Originally Posted by Q mystic

thee ONLY 'legitimate' former hi-comp grappler from any of the 3 styles(judo,wrestling or bjj) to hold a p4p ranking right now is a former nat medalist and world cup medalist in judo.

I forgot, he isnt human. Or judo

So, take all of the former nat-plus wrestlers, bjjers and judoka that have fought mma. See how many of each, their record and their rankng and compare that list to the rest of each. Win percentage then, if not just p4p at the time like the above paragraph.

You will then see stats on 'chance' to be a winner in mma and I think you will find judo has superceded.

are yo usaying that BJ Penn isnt on the pound 4 pound list, or didn't you know he is a BJJ World Champion?

[Ryo]

I'm sorry if this sounds rude or insulting.. but...

This is such a stupid thread. The same thread gets made and appears on these forums from time to time.

The fact of the matter is, both Judo and Sambo have been very well represented in MMA. The problem is people are just not educated enough on the subject to know that. They think that you have to look like Yoshida or Karo to be doing Judo. It's rediculous. Judo is vast as its practiced practically in every part of the globe.

There are many fighters with a huge Judo background. Not just the Olympians or international level Judoka. Those who have been training Judo since they were a kid use it in any sport they do, they have no choice but to use it. The balance, coordination, (huge) TD's (which dont have to be high flying to be considered Judo) pins and quick transition to submissions are the benifits or practiceing Judo.

If you've been doing this since you were a kid, which probably most the fighters in Shooto and Pancrase alone have been doing, its not something that you just throw away and dont use in MMA.

[lethalazn]

TS welcome to 2010, it's already happened

[Keltos]

Originally Posted by Ryo

its not something that you just throw away and dont use in MMA.

Hell yeah, and if you have that much of a background in it you would have certainly learned to adapt it to no-gi as well. I would think. It would be like second nature in some circumstances.

[tapoutdh]

I completely agree.I see judo being used all the time in mma.It's great for mma.Bjjs great for the ground but you got to get them on the ground first and judo take downs will get them there!!!