BJJ takedowns vs. Wrestling takedowns??

Title Fight Productions · 11-04-2009, 05:27 PM

So i have recently been taking BJJ and am loving it!!!!! I have some sub grappling/Catch training and also really enjoyed that.

i am interested in peoples thoughts and ideas on the diffrence i have noticed between the wrestling takedown (usually front knee hits the mat first) and what i have seen and been taught of BJJ's takedowns (usually rear knee hits the mat first.) I also recently watch this clip of Rickson from choke and at the 35 second mark YouTube - Rickson Gracie Ginastica/Yoga he does some "duck walks" on the beach and its his rear knee that hits the ground first, then he transitions into the front knee hitting first in the duckwalks.

Just wanted to get some imput from some of our better BJJ guys and there thoughts and the reasoning behind this rear knee vs. front knee issue im having.

Thanks in advance!!

Dirty Deeds · 11-04-2009, 05:46 PM

Rear/front knee contact makes no difference. The type of takedown you are attempting determines which knee should hit first. I train with guys who reward me for taking them down with chokes and armbars, granted, I am giving up less and less submissions. Overall, BJJ players takedowns are not as strong as wrestlers, if there is more emphasis put on controlling the position that the match goes to the ground in, there would be an evolution in the sport. Imagine if Damien Maia, Robert Drysdale or Roger Gracie could take people down the way that Kenny Monday, Kurt Angle and Cael Sanderson do, we have a whole new type of beast.

**DaRuckus337** · 11-04-2009, 06:43 PM

BJJ guys are often trying to do 'wrestling' takedowns, they're just not doing them properly a lot of the time due to lack of practice. That's just the truth. In any event, don't think of it in terms of which knee hits when so much. What you need to focus on is a lead-leg penetration step and a level change, followed by getting the right grips and head pressure, followed by working to angle/turning the corner, followed by getting back to a strong position and (ideally) off your knees altogether so you can drive with authority to finish the takedown. Being on yours knees for any appreciable length of time is not a part of any good takedown.

YeahBee · 11-04-2009, 07:09 PM

Disclaimer: I have no serious wrestling training and only a few months of BJJ (but some years in judo)

The way I was taught the doubleleg in judo and the way we have drilled it in BJJ is vastly different

In judo I just blasted them deep level change. way more of a tackle to simplify it, in BJJ the coach emphasizes the angle change clearing the legs away and a more upright stance to not end up in guard, something that mattered little in judo

nefti · 11-04-2009, 07:15 PM

the only thing that matters when doing singles and doubles is to be carefull where you put your head so you don't get guillotined.

skey91 · 11-04-2009, 07:17 PM

If you are just getting ino=to wrestling here are a two threads I made a while ago with good wrestling technique videos and just some awesome matches and highlights.

wrestling Technique Website videos. Updated with Zeke Jones

THe mother of all wrestling libraries (videos) Updated.

YeahBee · 11-04-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nefti

the only thing that matters when doing singles and doubles is to be carefull where you put your head so you don't get guillotined.

I kinda like sticking my head there, more to lift/turn with and I get the penetrating I need and when it hits the ground I can jam my shoulder in their throat and work the pass

Dark_Phoenix · 11-04-2009, 07:55 PM

All the takedowns ive been taught in BJJ have the front knee hitting the mat first, dunno where you got that back knee assumption from.

You post between the legs with your front foot, penetrate forward to make them lose their balance, bring your back foot forward to give you lifting power/push power then do the takedown. Back knee never touches the mat.

georgejjr · 11-04-2009, 07:57 PM

The main point in whether your front knee hits the ground is your opponent's stance. In general, in freestyle and folkstyle wrestling the stance is low, so you have to go down to the ground. In BJJ and judo (and MMA) the stance tends to be more upright, so you can come in higher.

It also varies with weight division, partly because of the strength/weight ratio, partly because heavyweights tend not to crouch as low as lightweights.

A good person to watch for this is GSP, you can find clips of him doing a double leg in grappling, and in MMA ... note the difference. Same for Hughes and Lesnar.

Il Wop-O · 11-05-2009, 02:12 AM

In our BJJ, our singles and doubles are straight out of freestyle, so I don't know where this "back knee hits first" comes from. With us, it's this;
Penetrating step
Lead knee causes level change
Establish the grip & drag rear foot up
Cut the angle, pull & drive.

Single leg - head inside, run the pipe, etc.
Double leg - head outside, sweep the legs, look up the back, run sideways, etc.

We try to be a well rounded gym, so we use different sources for takedowns. BJJ trips w/ body locks, Judo for throws, sweeps & reaps, Greco for throws & sweeps, Freestyle for singles, doubles, switches & whizzer-based maneuvers.

Mix it all. Take that which you can make work.