The BJJ Black Belt Discussion Thread - Time for a Two Tiered System?

jjmuaythaiguy · 08-23-2006, 12:43 PM

Goodmorning all, after reading my latest Grappling magazine (September 2006) last night, an article about the speed to black belt in bjj caught my eye. As some of you know I train directly under Relson Gracie in Honolulu, Hawaii. It is very, very hard to earn a black belt from him. I have heard talk before about certain Gracies giving out balck belts like candy but that can not be said of everyone. Although its very hard, once earned, the Relson Gracie black belt can have the full respect from everyone that he knows all the self defense, weapons, clinches, punches, kicks, gi and no gi that Relson teaches. Just ask Phil Cardella, the last blackbelt who competes in mma.

Now I understand that for the majority of the schools out there bjj has become a sport pure and simple. There are more people offering black belts in three - five years for sport grappling (gi and no gi only). I was thinking that maybe its time to consider having a black belt for sport bjj people. I mean, no disrespect to any brown who has beaten a black belt in a tournament and gets promoted to black belt by whoever. I also mean, no disrespect to anyone who has not competed in a tournament from purple to brown but gets promoted to black belt.

I just think that there should be a two tiered system for the bjj black belt:

One for pure sport grappling, guys who beat black belts in tournament and only focus on that
The black belt certificate should read, "(*enter name) has earned a black belt in sports grappling bjj awarded by (*enter instructor's name) he trained from (*enter date) to (*enter date) and was awarded a sport bjj black belt after winning (*enter event) on (*enter date)"

The other one stays the same. I don't know, maybe I am too traditional or something but since a lot of people just want to say they got a black belt in bjj, I figure why not give them credit for winning a tournament over a black belt by awarding them a sport bjj black belt.

People like BJ Penn that can fight on the streets, win black belt tournaments and are champions in the ring are the exception and not the rule. Just in the UFC/Pride forum this morning, people are discussing Mike Fowler's speed to black belt and what will happen when it comes to punches, knees and kicks and have really good points. Others threads I have read about are people who change instructors just to get a bjj black belt without competing in anything after blue belt or after attaining four stripe brown (and winning in brown belt competitions) but forget the basic self defense courses.

I think this is a good idea for people who walk into a academy and look on the wall and want to know what kind of black belt this person is and the speed to the black belt in bjj.

Let me know what you guys think. Everyone is welcome to contribute, this could very well be a "Judo Black belt - Two tiered system thread" as some schools are strictly "sports" judo and other schools are traditional ground fighting, self defense based. Not to bash anyone I'm just looking for healthy discussion.

I'll check back later.

johil d'o · 08-23-2006, 12:49 PM

It's a well thought out thread, but I would never want that 2 tiers. How would you distinguish the 2 types by looking at them wearing belts? Let's keep the integrity of the traditional one belt system.

Frodo · 08-23-2006, 01:05 PM

I agree: one system. What's wrong with batsugun?

blanko · 08-23-2006, 01:08 PM

those guys who get black belts in 4 years are phenoms and they do well in competitions and can handle themselves in the a self defence situation.

Ybot · 08-23-2006, 01:14 PM

I don't agree with a two teir system either. I believe that what makes BJJ so good is it's overwhelming emphisis on ground grappling, it's specialization.

Certainly if your instructor wants to include more in their requirements for black belt, that is their perogitive, and you can be proud you recieved a blackbelt from them knowing what that means.

I guess I don't really believe in a "complete martial art". I believe the complete matial artist becomes so by cross training, and then applying their specifc knowlage. I mean we could all train at a mixed martial arts gym and get kinda good at a lot of things, but my intention is to get really good at grappling.

Also, IMO self-defence application is overrated.

yella91 · 08-23-2006, 01:20 PM

I also don't think that the two tiered system is necessary. I mean, if someone does well in competition and holds his own like Fowler is, then he should be considered a jiu jitsu black belt. We all know MMA is different and that a BB in BJJ does not translate to success nowadays. This is much like the discussion of a no gi BB vs a gi BB. Jiu jitsu is now a sport so the belt system should stay the same. I hate to say it, but all martial arts eventually are watered down. I just hope BJJ doesn't ever come to the level of a TKD or a Karate where juveniles are awarded BBs.

shrek_vt · 08-23-2006, 01:20 PM

I thought BJJ does have a "two belt" system? Those that do well in tournaments and naturally learn the techniques quickly but don't have a deep understanding of the art are awarded a fighters black belt. Signified by the black belt with a white band. For those that get to the black belt level where they have a deep understanding of the techniques and are not simply just athletic phenoms, get awarded an instructors black belt. A black belt with a red band. Or did I miss something?

yella91 · 08-23-2006, 01:21 PM

One more thing to add...when you do get your BB from Relson, I think it will be that much more rewarding to know that you earned it from a guy that does NOT give them out at will. I don't think there is any way to control belt promotions...

yella91 · 08-23-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrek_vt

I thought BJJ does have a "two belt" system? Those that do well in tournaments and naturally learn the techniques quickly but don't have a deep understanding of the art are awarded a fighters black belt. Signified by the black belt with a white band. For those that get to the black belt level where they have a deep understanding of the techniques and are not simply just athletic phenoms, get awarded an instructors black belt. A black belt with a red band. Or did I miss something?

I've never seen a black belt with a white band...

Kimuralex · 08-23-2006, 01:38 PM

Which gracie gives out bbs like crazy? You don't mean renzo do you? Cuz I know he has quite a few bb students and more then many other gracies..