Anyone compete in the Submission series on Saturday?

Tony Manifold · 07-06-2008, 01:36 PM

So anyone compete? If so how did you do?

Wrestler18 · 07-06-2008, 04:02 PM

I was there. I got second in both my gi and no-gi division. Our team also placed first in the compition. I thought it was very well run, Tim and the guys did a great job. Everything on time and ran very smooth. I'll for sure be going to the next submission series.

Tony Manifold · 07-06-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrestler18

I was there. I got second in both my gi and no-gi division. Our team also placed first in the compition. I thought it was very well run, Tim and the guys did a great job. Everything on time and ran very smooth. I'll for sure be going to the next submission series.

What division were you in?

Tony Manifold · 07-06-2008, 10:30 PM

I agree that once the event got running it ran well. The matches moved at a good pace. I had some problems with the pre event stuff like them posting 3 different versions of the weigh classes. Changing the rules at the last minute ( no leg locks at all when the rules states no heel hooks only). I also wish they had been up front and told people that the would shuffle weight classes if guys were over and/or been forgiving. I entered a weight classe 10+ pounds heaver than I was because I didn't want to make the trip and no get to fight. I actually weighed in 12.5 pounds lower than the limit.

The other problem I had, had nothing to do with the running of the event but the concept itself. The idea is good in theory because it is supposed to encourage subs and discourage stalling. But in reality, stalling is just as prevalent if you are up a couple of advantages. And the advantages for subs are very, very subjective. In one match, I had two ezekiel attempts which were never counted but his two triangles did. To be fair, an ezekiel is hard to see where a triangle is obvious. But in another match, I had 3 attempts (flying armbar, kimura type lock of a sitout, and armbar from guard) the other guy had an anaconda, none of which were counted as advantages. He played turtle most of the match, so he had top and presumably won because of that. That was cool with me, he beat me fairly IMO but in the fight before (w/ the same ref) a buddy of mine dominated a guy from start to finish. The other guy threw up a triangle attempt which resulted in his guard getting passed. He was not credited with an advantage. Should have been a no-brainer for my buddy but the other guy got the win. According to the ref, position means nothing but only attempts. So by that reasoning, I should have won my fight. It was too subjective. A guard pass is pretty clear, same for getting mount.

Even with all that, I still had a blast. I have never been one to have to win gold to enjoy myself. I fought well, was not submitted, tried some crazy fun shit and didn't lose to anyone with a mohawk or worse, a faux hawk.

Wrestler18 · 07-07-2008, 11:00 PM

I was in white belt 181 and beginner 174 no-gi. Ya I know what you mean about the points. Some refs would give a point for a sub that wasn't even close to putting the guy in danger, or even have him defend it. Where others would only give a point if it might actually have a chance of finnishing. I still had a blast though.

DSGhST07 · 07-08-2008, 12:10 AM

Tony, your really not supposed to get an advantage if you "attempt" a submission, only if you have it locked in and the opponent is in danger but he escapes. But if you are saying you had them locked in and didnt get the adv., thats something that happens ALL THE TIME, everytime I go to NAGA and lock in subs or even get positions I get no points, but when guys do reversals they get points.

Commissar · 07-08-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSGhST07

Tony, your really not supposed to get an advantage if you "attempt" a submission, only if you have it locked in and the opponent is in danger but he escapes. But if you are saying you had them locked in and didnt get the adv., thats something that happens ALL THE TIME, everytime I go to NAGA and lock in subs or even get positions I get no points, but when guys do reversals they get points.

The rules for Submission Series are different than NAGA. Submission Series puts more emphasis on submission attempts than positional control.

furdog · 07-08-2008, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Manifold

I agree that once the event got running it ran well. The matches moved at a good pace. I had some problems with the pre event stuff like them posting 3 different versions of the weigh classes. Changing the rules at the last minute ( no leg locks at all when the rules states no heel hooks only).

I have a problem with competitions that do this, because they obviously do not understand anything about the mechanics or safety of submissions if they claim they are doing this for safety. Looks like they just want more Judo guys to compete.

Twisting submissions like heel hooks and kimuras can quick cause damage. "Leg locks" in general consists of many types of submissions, many that are quite safe. A kneebar or calf crusher is probably much safer than an omaplata or kimura.

Eliminating leglocks changes the whole open guard game and turns the competitions into ne waza.

Belatucadros · 07-08-2008, 07:43 AM

doesn't ne waza literally mean ground technique? wouldn't it already have been?

forgive me, my japanese isn't great.

Tony Manifold · 07-08-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belatucadros

doesn't ne waza literally mean ground technique? wouldn't it already have been?

forgive me, my japanese isn't great.

But it is used to mean judo ground work with is restricted to chokes and armlocks. This tournament was exactly like that except for the advance no-gi and purple and above gi which allowed achilles locks.