[Bama Zulu]

For people who are just starting I think your progress will go much slower if you try to use strength all the time. I am a pretty big guy (6'2, 220lbs) I have played varsity football for 4 years and I have athletism and strength, I also lift weights. I use to try to muscle all my techniques and try to force things that were simply not there. After seeing how other people roll and getting advice from all my classmates I have changed.

For the past 4 weeks I have tried to use no strength at all when rolling and just focus on the technique and oh boy have I gotten much better. Now I am starting to use more force when I want something and it's becoming a lot easier to pass the guard from all the knowledge I have recieved from using just technique, coupled with my agressiveness.

So yeah strength is good, but get the technique down perfect first against a resisting opponent using no strength. My game has improved greatly from it.

And not everyone who trains in BJJ wants to do tournies, I think dividing up class time would be detrimental. That's why most BJJ schools have different classes altogether. Like for instance my school has regular all belts BJJ for 3 times a week and competition training for 2 times a week. Works better that way than dividing up a regular class like that.

[triso]

I for the most part agree with you about this. I believe the reason that most places are not run like this is simple though ... money. If they push all their students this hard, the ones that aren't looking to compete, and do this for other reasons, such as hobby, fun, ego-booster, self-defense, etc, will quit, which will in turn result in loss of money.

The problem is a lot of people feel like why isn’t the class run more like wrestling? Brutal practices, major focus on conditioning drills, etc. Well it’s as simple as not everyone training for the same reason. Wrestling is usually trained in school, as a team sport. The practices are longer, and everyone there is training with the same goal in mind, to win tournaments. This is just not the case in Jiu Jitsu, and people need to realize this.

If you go to a school that has a strong presence in grappling tournaments, or at least has a team or guys that compete, then you can get training that is somewhat like what you desire.

I for one want to compete, and once I get good enough with the Gi to where I am very technical, I’d like to start competing no-gi. This is however my goal. I’m friends with someone in my class, who doesn’t even know about competitions like GQ and Naga.

[Fight_Song]

Originally Posted by S.D.Force

I really disagree with the way sub grappling JJ classes are run. In almost all places i've been it's always the same. At the end of class it's just open mat. You pick a guy or get picked. Then you proceed to have the next 30 min. to 1 hour to "roll". Personally, i am an ex wrestler and just naturally favor a power/agression style of pushing the action. Any wrestler will tell you though, after about 2 minutes of hard work you can start to tire if you're not taking some rests and watching your breathing.

remember when you go to a bjj school that you are there to learn. you're not there to do the wrestling stuff you've already done.

it's like if a insanely strong guy shows up for class and just muscles the entire time he rolls. sure, he might hold his own just because he's bigger and the average size guys cant budge him, but he learns nothing but how to be strong and muscle. he's wasting his time because he comes to a bjj school to learn bjj, not to learn how to muscle. get what i'm saying?

learn not to just rely on being a great athlete like you can in wrestling. bjj is in for the long fight until you win or until your time is up. this means you need to learn when you can save your power and what not to waste energy fighting on so you can save it when you need it to escape trouble or finish. as you learn technique you can save your strength and combine them when needed.

you can keep your elbow bent and try to push on someone, or you can strighten and lock your arm and rotate your hip and shoulders and use your body weight as force. this saves energy. little stuff like this helps tons in a long fight. cesar gracie is great at explaining this stuff.

Originally Posted by S.D.Force

There are guys in the club who haven't been training as long as me or attending as often, who seem to win on pure aggression. Sometimes when we're rolling I feel like they're treating each roll like a competition, but afterwards, they're always very cool and relaxed, so it's not hostility as such. I work on technique a lot both in class and at home, but I'm wondering if more of the benefit comes from just overwhelming your opponent with everything you have.

when i wrestled on my team, we'd go at it like we hated eachother. often, the guy you're practicing against is the man you have to beat to secure your spot as a starter. when you're on your turn for a break (groups of 3 usually, 1 man out) and you're watching, you can see how they feel becuase they're leaving it on the mat even in practice.

at the end of the day, if you can really slug it out with your team it just makes you stronger. and that helps a ton when you're spending countless hours together on ghetto cheap freezing cold busses driving up and down the whole damn state.

[Tommie]

hmmm agression. It depends on your style. You can be agressive by always moving and using strength when its needed. Sergio Penha taught me that you use strength when you are freeing someones hand from their belt or when you need to force their legs down when you are passing.

[Oktavius]

Originally Posted by S.D.Force

I really disagree with the way sub grappling JJ classes are run. In almost all places i've been it's always the same. At the end of class it's just open mat. You pick a guy or get picked. Then you proceed to have the next 30 min. to 1 hour to "roll". Personally, i am an ex wrestler and just naturally favor a power/agression style of pushing the action. Any wrestler will tell you though, after about 2 minutes of hard work you can start to tire if you're not taking some rests and watching your breathing.

One of my big "beefs" is that for a tournament you are expected to go about 4-5 min. as a novice, beginner, intermediate. So really that is what i think we should be training for in practice. They should do sparring periods with a ring timer or something to let us know the time and then let us go at it. Maybe not ALL the time, but at least sometimes. The biggest problem "passive" jiu jitsu guys have at tournaments is that now they are forced to grapple hard for 4-5 min. and they are used to going "easy" for 30 minutes in practice.

To me it's all about tournament preparation. And to prepare for that, you need to be going at it at least somewhat aggressively. And if you are going that hard, then ususually you need to rest at about the 4-5 minute level. To me that sounds reasonable. And to that extent (tournament preparation) JJ is really NOT a marathon, and it's not really a sprint either, it's kind of like running a hard mile or so.

Classes should have periods of technical and light rolling which is classified strictly at non-sparring, and then for guys that want to tournament train, or do realistic sparring. Which in almost all cases can be related to either tournament training or street fighting, well then i think they need to use a ring timer of 3-5 minutes or whatever, to set up realistic sessions. This way you know when the START period and the END periods are. And then you can clearly, objectively, and with intelligence, ration out your energy. Just as you need to do in a tournament match. That's how they do it in boxing, etc.. so why not jiu jitsu/sub grappling? Why does every place run classes the same way with sparring?

Ive never trained at a school that didint use a timer on about 2-5mins for roll time, then change partners.

[Oktavius]

And about aggression and strength during training? I think it has a place like getting ready for tournaments and fights and for a bit of fun now and then but you wont learn much technique. Better to go carefull and steady during regular class and get PROPPER movements ingrained into your body memory, that way when you do spaz, you will spaz with style. I think there are some gains to be had going hard but in the long run you HAVE to slow down and really learn what you are doing or you will be a white belt for a long time.