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Old 02-10-2008, 04:35 PM   #1 (permalink)

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Review of 52 Blocks documentary

So as per this thread rashad evans discusses the 52 blocks system
I went out and bought their dvd and watched it since I consider myself very interested in all martial arts history, since martial arts is culture and part of the story of how our societies/communities form and develop.

the question is not whether a martial art is effective or not, the question is "is what is being taught or practiced today faithful to the original context of that martial art"


The documentary is a collection of interviews with mostly older folk. It was made as an offshoot of their director's previous project about blacks in the martial arts, and urban martial culture. It pretty constantly hammers in the notion that 52 blocks is something of a bygone era ala the movie "The Warriors". About comraderie, shared sacrifice, a system of nostalgic chivalrous fighting "before the young people started getting guns and killing. Back in the day we'd all be one on one but these days everyone got guns" kind of thing. "gangs were different back in the day" "back in the days gangs were protective and not destructive" yada yada yada...


There's emphasis that 52 blocks is not a style but a mindset (that sounds kinda familar doesn't it?), that its practitioners develop their own style from fighting experience, though there are common techniques known among its practitioners.

Some 52 is demonstrated during the documentary - although the focus is mainly on storytelling. Techniques include:
- grappling using your clothing and the opponent's clothing to restrict movement and/or set up attacks.
- razor blade fighting, knife fighting
- fighting in close quarters (walls) and the use of environment (the use of impromptu weapons)


THE BIG QUESTION: would 52 blocks be effective in MMA?
Apples and oranges. Short answer: I don't think so. MMA is effective in MMA. Just like boxing is effective in boxing, and say fencing is effective in fencing. I always chuckle at UFC fight night intros where though show gladiators putting armor and picking up their gladius swords and stuff. As if MMA fighters were gladiators? Get real. I hope most sherdog'ers are experienced enough fighters to have discovered MMA's a sport just like any other sport.

52 blocks, like all martial arts, is a system of fighting developed within a historical and situational context. Like with all martial arts, as time goes on I think the context of martial arts get lost. For example we make fun of "ninjitsu" a lot. But I mean, back in the day there were historical ninjas and they really killed people, and their actual lives would have depended on the effectiveness their martial art. So, like all martial arts, the question is not whether a martial art is effective or not, the question is "is what is being taught or practiced today faithful to the original context of that martial art"


Is 52 blocks faithful to its origins claimed as a "prison martial art"? Yes and no. It's clear many of the people interviewed in this documentary have learned 52 blocks while incarcerated and used it for fighting, even recently. However, if you or I being white collar folks (cause no one in the ghetto has internet access to go to Sherdog.com) bought some "instructional dvd" or went to a "52 blocks mcdojo"... you can see how this would not translate, how this would just get fake and diluted very quickly. So here we run into a kind of "Rule 1 of Fight Club" dilemma. I think 52 blocks is a real, legit system of fighting. But we're probably not going to see it in a ring competition any time soon.

Last edited by ambertch; 02-10-2008 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:36 PM   #2 (permalink)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambertch View Post
So as per this thread rashad evans discusses the 52 blocks system
I went out and bought their dvd and watched it since I consider myself very interested in all martial arts history, since martial arts is culture and part of the story of how our societies/communities form and develop.

the question is not whether a martial art is effective or not, the question is "is what is being taught or practiced today faithful to the original context of that martial art"


The documentary is a collection of interviews with mostly older folk. It was made as an offshoot of their director's previous project about blacks in the martial arts, and urban martial culture. It pretty constantly hammers in the notion that 52 blocks is something of a bygone era ala the movie "The Warriors". About comraderie, shared sacrifice, a system of nostalgic chivalrous fighting "before the young people started getting guns and killing. Back in the day we'd all be one on one but these days everyone got guns" kind of thing. "gangs were different back in the day" "back in the days gangs were protective and not destructive" yada yada yada...


There's emphasis that 52 blocks is not a style but a mindset (that sounds kinda familar doesn't it?), that its practitioners develop their own style from fighting experience, though there are common techniques known among its practitioners.

Some 52 is demonstrated during the documentary - although the focus is mainly on storytelling. Techniques include:
- grappling using your clothing and the opponent's clothing to restrict movement and/or set up attacks.
- razor blade fighting, knife fighting
- fighting in close quarters (walls) and the use of environment (the use of impromptu weapons)


THE BIG QUESTION: would 52 blocks be effective in MMA?
Apples and oranges. Short answer: I don't think so. MMA is effective in MMA. Just like boxing is effective in boxing, and say fencing is effective in fencing. I always chuckle at UFC fight night intros where though show gladiators putting armor and picking up their gladius swords and stuff. As if MMA fighters were gladiators? Get real. I hope most sherdog'ers are experienced enough fighters to have discovered MMA's a sport just like any other sport.

52 blocks, like all martial arts, is a system of fighting developed within a historical and situational context. Like with all martial arts, as time goes on I think the context of martial arts get lost. For example we make fun of "ninjitsu" a lot. But I mean, back in the day there were historical ninjas and they really killed people, and their actual lives would have depended on the effectiveness their martial art. So, like all martial arts, the question is not whether a martial art is effective or not, the question is "is what is being taught or practiced today faithful to the original context of that martial art"


Is 52 blocks faithful to its origins claimed as a "prison martial art"? Yes and no. It's clear many of the people interviewed in this documentary have learned 52 blocks while incarcerated and used it for fighting, even recently. However, if you or I being white collar folks (cause no one in the ghetto has internet access to go to Sherdog.com) bought some "instructional dvd" or went to a "52 blocks mcdojo"... you can see how this would not translate, how this would just get fake and diluted very quickly. So here we run into a kind of "Rule 1 of Fight Club" dilemma. I think 52 blocks is a real, legit system of fighting. But we're probably not going to see it in a ring competition any time soon.

appreciate the review of it, i think u make a point that alot of us miss; that all these tech have had some historical effectiveness in regards to their application. At some point all these moves were very eff, esp during a time when there effectiveness determined ur safety or even quality of life; i think most arts get watered down in regards to tech and to the training/conditioning because most people aren't learning these arts to survive or fight on a day to day basis, they are using it to stay in shape and learn a philosophy/etc.

esp in the case of 52 blocks, it was made to survive in a certain environment, PRISON; u can't really compare that to any other situation or instance u will be in, unless u really be in the hood and have to deal w/that sort of ish. An to market most things, esp to fully take in the money u wantm U HAVE TO SCALE IT DOWN; u can go hard for a sport. But in the case of self defense scaling down or back hurts the historical honesty of the art and the effectiveness; people don't want to pay that kind of price to be able to def themselves, which is part of the reason people liked bjj. A way u could train for 6months and beat a blkbelt w/out taking a shot or a boxer w/out getting hit or a world champion kickboxer; people want to find a way to fight or win w/out taking alot of abuse (i,e, punishment). It was gracies selling point remember the old ads u can beat any stylist and size opp in less than a min.

that is why sooo many people mcdojo the art, cus nowadays people dont WANT to do all the intense hardcore training or sparring; an they don't want their kids doing it. As big as boxing mma and wrestling is around the world; every other sport is mainstream and has more people doing it, football soccer basketball baseball tennis golf hockey gymnastics track weightlifting etc.

so i think ur review was right on point...an ur exp for why it won't ever be more than it is makes sense
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:03 PM   #3 (permalink)

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I enjoyed your review and thought that it was well thought out and really have no criticisms that aren't just assanine on my part, and your review makes me want to check this documentary out, and I have to probably agree with your thought process on this not being a style but a mindset...I think that gets overlooked a lot, many people throw everything they see into the category of a "style of martial arts" instead of realizing the differences between being a "style" and a "mindset".
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think that there is a very big element here and elsewhere that strives to find the "best" fighting system for a street fight.

I train not to fight competitively, but for self-defense.

JKD looked like the answer in the 70's.
For a time (UFC 1-4), BJJ looked like the way as Royce defeated all styles with no rules or time limits.
MMA (with boxing, jits, and MT) has evolved into the "right" mix of arts to be well-rounded.

Bottom line, does 52 offer another dimension for self defense?

I seems like hype to me. After watching the YouTube videos today from 62blocks intro I wrote it off as a NYC attempt to make money off of the prison system.

Skull and crossbones and the constantly moving and waving arms technique seemed weak.

The best part of Lyte's videos were his head movement to avoid getting hit...boxing.

And the philosophy of intercepting a punch and launching a counterattack is an ageless one.

Bruce Lee's intercepting Fist brought it back to the light.
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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don't know...
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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some of the defensive blocks work real good imo
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:05 PM   #7 (permalink)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slugger View Post
some of the defensive blocks work real good imo
i agree, none of the ish just seems like total garbage; i think alot of what they do is deception and distraction, kinda like when a streetballer does alot of handling w/the ball and uses alot of funky moves and angles so as to get u out of pocket and create an opening or get caught watching.

its the same way w/the off, from what i have see; get u watching or going one direction to catch/def the initial attack which creats the opening for the unorthodox counter to ur def.. or just do movemements that make u hesitate in attacking, see judah v mayweather; zab does a variation which more or less keeps pbf in the pocket not attacking or doing anything due to confusion in regards to what is being done or set up. An if ur very familiar w/how eff dynamic/masterful and tech a boxer pbf is u know that is quite the feet.

the defense seems fairly sound to me in regards to little shifts and blocks they exhibit and little steps/parries and shoves they use to adj the range or get the opp off their sweet spot or out of position...

its not BAD per se
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