[sokaiya]

A = Famed Kenpo Stance

[Rudy Richter]

Originally Posted by triplex429

does he?

He was joking... Arona's chin is always up in the air like he is begging to be hit there.

[Afro thunder]

I used to do kenpo and we did the more sideways stance, but kept our chins down and hands up

[TapOut67]

I trained in Kenpo for 5 years (The Tracy System), and yes, some of the old school instructors (from before Ed Parker) did advocate a more wider stance, with hands down lower, and chin up. But, for the most part todays instructors (myself included) in Kenpo do not advocate this, alot of your fighting style in Kenpo is dictated by your instructor, fortunately, my instructors had backgrounds in the "Sweet Science" and Kickboxing (Western), so of course I and all the other students at our school were taught to keep the hands up and chin down. Thank God for this.

Actually, our stance looked alot like "C" in the diagram above, fortunately for myself our school was very flexible and our Chief Instructor had rankings in other systems other than Kenpo.

The Tracy System used to be very rigid back in the 70's and 80's but in order to keep students they have had to be much more flexible with the curriculum they teach. Schools are now allowed to have seminars from any other style they wish (BJJ, Sambo, Muay Thai, Kali/Silat etc.), this was unheard of 20 years ago.

Nowadays you either have to adapt to the times or close up shop.

[Gregster]

Originally Posted by triplex429

i would say that most TMA (traditional martial arts) can offer somthing as far as fitness but probpably aren't as practical in it's usage in combat

Every time I see this general sentiment expressed here on Sherdog ("Yeah, TMA is a good workout, but it's useless for fighting!") I have to wonder what the individual expressing this belief thinks is the reason why "TMAs" were invented in the first flippin' place. Was Karate invented because Okinawan peasants under Japanese rule said "You know, rice-farming just isn't giving me the cardio and strength benefits I'm looking for...maybe if we started punching trees and kicking stuff, we'd get a much better workout!!" Did the monks of the Shaolin temple decide that the best way to ward off bandits and ruffians and protect the locals was to develop a really cool form of Chinese aerobics which would give them fantastic resting heart rates and vital lung capacity?

At the same time, I likewise feel compelled to point out that arts such as boxing, wrestling, and Muay Thai which are never, *ever* labelled as being "TMA" are more traditional, and predate, many so-called "TMA" arts.

[The Gubbinz]

Apparently because people doing TMAs are going to get their ass squashed by even a common street fighter.

[Greasemonk]

Originally Posted by Gregster

Every time I see this general sentiment expressed here on Sherdog ("Yeah, TMA is a good workout, but it's useless for fighting!") I have to wonder what the individual expressing this belief thinks is the reason why "TMAs" were invented in the first flippin' place. Was Karate invented because Okinawan peasants under Japanese rule said "You know, rice-farming just isn't giving me the cardio and strength benefits I'm looking for...maybe if we started punching trees and kicking stuff, we'd get a much better workout!!" Did the monks of the Shaolin temple decide that the best way to ward off bandits and ruffians and protect the locals was to develop a really cool form of Chinese aerobics which would give them fantastic resting heart rates and vital lung capacity?

At the same time, I likewise feel compelled to point out that arts such as boxing, wrestling, and Muay Thai which are never, *ever* labelled as being "TMA" are more traditional, and predate, many so-called "TMA" arts.

haha, calm down dude he didn't say it was useless he just said maybe it isn't as practical

[Rinksterk]

Actually, aren't boxing and wrestling Traditional martial arts too? Wasn't boxing around before Jesus was born? Sure a lot has changed since then, but so have other "useless" MAs.

[Gregster]

Originally Posted by Greasemonk

haha, calm down dude he didn't say it was useless he just said maybe it isn't as practical

I know what he said, Greasemonk. And my point still stands: "TMA" were invented by guys who needed a means to defend themselves, often in life-or-death situations. All that shit about providing an aerobic workout and giving your young 'uns good self esteem came later.

While I think it pretty much goes without saying that martial arts in general has undergone a lot of watering down as the number of schools teaching them have increased, and the overall proportion of schools that exist largely to collect training and testing fees while handing out belts and making sure that the students don't get discouraged and quit by making sure nobody has to invest much time, effort, or pain to advance have likewise increased...this doesn't mean an art isn't worth learning. Any MA is only as good or bad as the guy teaching it and the student learning it..

[aaron_mag]

Originally Posted by Gregster

I know what he said, Greasemonk. And my point still stands: "TMA" were invented by guys who needed a means to defend themselves, often in life-or-death situations. All that shit about providing an aerobic workout and giving your young 'uns good self esteem came later.

I often quote the 'aerobic workout' point myself. But to me aerobic workout = good self-defense. As a matter of fact I'd say the flaw in most 'TMAs' is lack of aerobic workout rather too much of one. What I mean by this is the class that spends the entire time working on "Block the punch, do a spinning leg sweep, finish with a punch" type moves.

I think developing athleticism, reflexes, flexibility, and strength is far better because it is more versatile.

As far as the effectiveness in self-defense for a TMA there seems to be a wide range of outcomes. I've known 16 year old girls who dropped a guy with a spinning sidekick, a middle aged smallish guy who launched a guy with a kick to the nuts when the guy pulled a knife on him when he was with his daughters, etc.

I've also known good athletes that I thought could handle themselves well get sucker punched and have it go downhill from there.

The common thread seems to be that people get themselves in trouble when they think they have control of the situation, but don't. A false sense of confidence = bad. Heck we've even had BJJ guys on this very board get knifed.

There are too many random factors on 'the street' and as they say assholes tend to travel in packs. Personally I like sport training. I like TKD sport training and I like submission wrestling. I train for enjoyment first and if I get a self-defense side benefit then great.