[metalMMA101]

Kyokushin is an amazing striking art. It whips you into shape quick and your technique increases vastly. I know there is no face shots, but it it really all that hard to aim at a face instead of a body? It still teaches you how to set up shots and block and such, don't you think a man that takes a little time to spar with face punches outside of class, won't be able to punch somebody in the face?

I know, I know. They aren't used to being punched in the face are they? but chins can't be trained right? your born with it. and they are used to the feeling of being hit.

In my opinion, kyokushin is just as good as any other striking martial art out there. We can do anything they can do.

Go ahead, call me a whitebelt noob. Call me unoriginal and tell me to use the search bar. I personally don't give a fuck.

[doomburrito]

use teh searchbar you whitebelt noo..oh.

instead of making an internet post about it, why don't you go fight a muay thai guy or whatever you're insecure about. fight some dude with comparable experience. post the video of you wrecking some lives.

otherwise the "opinion" shit doesn't really convince anyone of anything.

[danny_171]

I have no experience with Kyokushin so I'll try not to talk badly about it, but...in real fights, people throw punches at your face, not your body. Being hit in the face is different from being smacked in the body, which you don't seem to realize judging from your post. If you get popped in the nose, your eyes water. If you get caught with a good shot, your equilibrium is thrown out of whack. If you get your nose smashed, you have trouble breathing. These are things that don't happen when dealing with body shots, so Kyokushin practictioners aren't prepared for them, no matter how well conditioned they may be.

Also, defending punches to the face is vastly different from defending against body shots. Slipping, parrying, ducking under, and using footwork to avoid shots are all taught in boxing/MT, as well as how to block them outright. The defensive moves for dealing with body shots don't translate into defending a shot to the dome.

That being said, Kyokushin does seem to be one of the better TMA's in terms of being valuable to MMA or coping with the superior striking of boxing or Muay Thai. From what I've heard conditioning is highly prioritized and the strikes do seem to be grounded in practicality, at least as far as the punches are concered. But if you're truly confident in your ability, go spar with some boxers or Muay Thai fighters and see how Kyokushin compares. I believe you will find it to be enlightening.

[swamp_fist]

Originally Posted by doomburrito

use teh searchbar you whitebelt noo..oh.

instead of making an internet post about it, why don't you go fight a muay thai guy or whatever you're insecure about. fight some dude with comparable experience. post the video of you wrecking some lives.

otherwise the "opinion" shit doesn't really convince anyone of anything.

LOL! Is that you, Tony?

My training was many years of Kyokushin, and it was good experience. But my experience this summer sparring a Muay Thai guy was what got me to start up boxing.

No, I didn't get wrecked, but I was definitely working with a handicap. It's true that full contact sparring does translate to some extent, but there are also strategies and experiences that don't translate very well outside of the bareknuckle body-only experience.

For instance, it's hard to find someone outside of Kyokushin who will stand toe to toe for a Kyokushin broadside exchange (like two 18th century warships). The Muay Thai guy I fought would come into range to strike, then get back out of range as soon as I made a move. I was reduced to counterpunching even as I steadily advanced.

Another example is the blackout of vision when blocking face punches. Jabs to the face temporarily hide the followup shots coming your way, and that's a different experience. In fact, frequent, stinging jabs are foreign to Kyokushin praticitioners, as is any type of head movement - let alone ducking a punch. Handicap.

Gloved punches to the body are super easy to take after having endured bareknuckle punches - that's an advantage. But it's hard to land punches to the other guy's body because the boxing gloves don't pierce through small gaps in the arms the way a bare fist does. Handicap.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Learning bareknuckle has advantages, but it's not complete. By the same token, strictly training boxing or Muay Thai isn't complete either, as there are quite a few things that change when the gloves come off. Had the Muay Thai guy sparred by Kyokushin rules bareknuckle, he would have been the one with the handicap to overcome, not me.

Nothing's as simple as noobs think.

[swamp_fist]

Originally Posted by danny_171

...If you get popped in the nose, your eyes water. If you get caught with a good shot, your equilibrium is thrown out of whack. If you get your nose smashed, you have trouble breathing. These are things that don't happen when dealing with body shots, so Kyokushin practictioners aren't prepared for them, no matter how well conditioned they may be.....

We covered some of the same points, but I have do disagree with the eyes watering. I expected that, but instead the problem was my neck getting sore from having my head snap backwards. Getting hit in the face actually didn't hurt half as much as I thought it would - but I almost got whiplash.

Cheers

[devante]

Originally Posted by swamp_fist

LOL! Is that you, Tony?

My training was many years of Kyokushin, and it was good experience. But my experience this summer sparring a Muay Thai guy was what got me to start up boxing.

No, I didn't get wrecked, but I was definitely working with a handicap. It's true that full contact sparring does translate to some extent, but there are also strategies and experiences that don't translate very well outside of the bareknuckle body-only experience.

For instance, it's hard to find someone outside of Kyokushin who will stand toe to toe for a Kyokushin broadside exchange (like two 18th century warships). The Muay Thai guy I fought would come into range to strike, then get back out of range as soon as I made a move. I was reduced to counterpunching even as I steadily advanced.

Another example is the blackout of vision when blocking face punches. Jabs to the face temporarily hide the followup shots coming your way, and that's a different experience. In fact, frequent, stinging jabs are foreign to Kyokushin praticitioners, as is any type of head movement - let alone ducking a punch. Handicap.

Gloved punches to the body are super easy to take after having endured bareknuckle punches - that's an advantage. But it's hard to land punches to the other guy's body because the boxing gloves don't pierce through small gaps in the arms the way a bare fist does. Handicap.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Learning bareknuckle has advantages, but it's not complete. By the same token, strictly training boxing or Muay Thai isn't complete either, as there are quite a few things that change when the gloves come off. Had the Muay Thai guy sparred by Kyokushin rules bareknuckle, he would have been the one with the handicap to overcome, not me.

Nothing's as simple as noobs think.

good post, bare knuckle sparring/fighting is way diff; the def/counters/attacks you can use are changed drastically, not saying every art doesnt have holes..they do. But the comfort that is provided by gloves has an immense impact on how and what you do, punches u throw u prob won't, covering up or just blocking becomes less eff; an the level of contact, the manner in which ur hit changes. Getting hit w/boxing or mma gloves is much diff than being hit by a bare fist..an in self def or fights u most likely won't be able to get gloves or gear on..so in that instance kyokushin is very realistic

[danny_171]

Originally Posted by swamp_fist

We covered some of the same points, but I have do disagree with the eyes watering. I expected that, but instead the problem was my neck getting sore from having my head snap backwards. Getting hit in the face actually didn't hurt half as much as I thought it would - but I almost got whiplash.

The watery-eyes is generally what happens when you get smacked with a hard shot on the nose and your head doesn't snap back. It's shots to the forehead that usually give me the whiplash effect.

[ryouboard]

Ah, the old Kyokushin vs. Muay Thai debate. If you read about some of their historic fights, both sides will claim superiority. I believe this is why K1 started in the first place. It was started by an offshoot of Kyokushin. In fact, I believe they had a Kyokushin vs. Muay Thai tournament.

Either way, both are good arts. Why claim one's better than the other? There's a style you like better? Fine. Just go do it. No need to bash another man's preference.

Now if you talk with a Sanda practitioner...there's definite ego there. Heh. All are good arts in my opinion.

[metalMMA101]

If you hadn't noticed I did say that the kyokushin fellow would need a little training on his fists to be "complete".

[ambertch]

I QUOTE BAS RUTTEN [paraphrased] from the "Potent" documentary

"Coming from TKD and kyokushin, I one day walked into a thai boxing gym. In Kyokushin you keep your hands down, so I got my ass kicked very badly. They punch and kick me in the face and I don't know what to do. That night, I went home and stood in front of the mirror for 4 hours, just keeping my hands up in front of my face. I punch and block with my hands always up by my face.

The next day, I went back to the thai boxing gym and beat everybody up"



What's the point? Andy Hug was Kyokushin remember? ANDY HUG. But he kept his hands up and axe-kicked the hell out of everyone in K-1

The point is that there are good martial artists and that's it. If a guy practicing TKD is a good martial artist and comes up against a grappler who owns with, the TKD guy will stop throwing flashy kicks, and also start learning grappling. He will adapt - if a kyokushin guy and a MT guy fought with no rules and the kyokushin guy got hit in the face - why WOULDN'T he put his guard up? Is he stupid? Is he dumb?

Hell that's what Bas did - he was a striker, then he himself says he gets submitted by Shamrock and vows to never get submitted again, then goes out and practices submissions all day. Now he's like the submission king and people don't even remember him for his striking.