Machida/Shogun: Standup Advantage?

[Too Defensive]

Who has the advantage in standup/ why



Prediction of how the fight will go down

[devante]

machida, rua has looked better w/more efficiency and actual tech; but the thing about him is alot of his success standing is based on athleticism, not so much tech excellence. His mt is ok, his boxing is terrible and his overall kickboxing is so so; the best thing about him is the unpredictable aspect of his standup AND his explosiveness/dynamic quality, he seems to be more durable and have a better chin than lyoto and more power.The only reason we know he has a better chin is that he is so haphazard off and def w/his striking; lyoto has been hit clean a handful of times so we have no idea what he can or can't take. Rua isn't as precise or def aware in regards to actual parries, blocks, slips or even control of range; his def is his off which handcuffs opp who don't want to get countered as a result of his overwhelming ability and the variety of strikes he uses. Also he fights in spots, he isn't consistent; he explodes in different points in a fight and if your in range or not well rounded in your striking you usually get caught and dropped or stopped, the issue being lyoto is def adept and phys gifted enough that staccato flow to striking won't be enough to offset him, an since there isn't a huge gap between them in regards to physical ability..rua won't be able to overrun/overwhelm lyoto's tech adv...which really is all he does. Against guys w/better base striking he can use his range of strikes and athleticism cus most guys STILL are only adept in one area; and against guys w/comparable ability he can rely on actual tech/range of strikes. The prob is now he is facing a comparable athlete and more importantly superior tech/strategist.

to me rua is rashad evans, w/better striking and grappling; in that tech what he does is nothing special, but when you take base level tech or avg tech and combine it w/top flight athleticism you are gonna be a problem, esp for the 3rd/4th tier strikers in mma.

the problem is when he has faced a guy w/legit standup he has often gone to his real strength grappling off of those funky bodylock takedowns; his ground game is very explosive varied and TECHNICAL unlike his catch as can striking. But when he fought cyril he wanted no part of him standing and the same w/lil nog, he traded but tech was getting handled; but his wider range of tech and explosiveness saved him against a fairly one dimensional striker in noguiera (his boxing great mt not so much esp back then)

i think his balance and ability make him a threat to lyoto, as he can more or less be a threat in all areas; or is at least functional in all areas. But standup is gonna cost him even now he is not disciplined or deliberate enough in my opinion; he has alot of holes for machida to fill, an agaisnt textbook/tech guys that has always been the case.

the problem for rua is there is a blueprint for how to beat him standing and on the ground; w/lyoto there is none cus he hasn't lost a round to speak of, if rua was more tech like a vera or a silva i would say he would win. But he's not...so i say lyoto by i don't know. All he has to do is compensate for the rhythm, explosiveness and uniqueness/diversity of his striking; rua will give you all the openings you need, you just have to be disciplined enough to wait for them while being def responsible and you have to have the ability to capitalize, not just the tech. But the physical ability, as evans/griffin and other fights have shown us when ur lacking decidely in areas of exp,power, mobilty, timing, foot/handspeed; then tech adv can be lessened or made immaterial.

i focused on rua cus we have discussed machida waaaay more than anyone else in mma right now.

[quickdraw]

Machida takes this one, Shogun is explosive and throws bunches of punches and no matter what anyone else has to say goes throw combo pretty easy as well. Shogun is not master of anything expect maybe MT clinch but he is above average is all areas. I know in my gut he can win WAR SHOGUN.

[Rink]

I agree. Rua tends to rely on his speed, aggression/workrate when striking. He sorta does the same on the ground; dude's real active and its hard to catch up with him. He ain't gonna out think Machida standing. He can come out aggressive but I think Machida disrupts Rua's rythm and counters. Shogun's best chance is to make it a grappling match as fast as he can and use his athleticism there. I also think Shogun is more proven on the ground than Machida but Machida can sweep/scramble pretty well when put in a compromising position on the ground.

I think Machida wins this one but Shogun can win if he's ready to constantly take Machida down, pin him down, and become as active as he can so Machida can't keep up with him. Prevent Machida from scrambling and sweeping.

[Scareus]

Machida takes this one, he's far too elusive and lately he has been on top of his game.

I think that if Shogun wants to take this one he needs to blitz Lyoto, but still being incredibly technical -- I'm envisioning him swarming on Lyoto similar to the way Pacquiao does. But I just don't see Lyoto having the gas tank, striking ability, or raw speed to do what needs to be done.

With all that being said, WAR SHOGUN (gotta root for the underdog)

[Pro Killer]

Shogun will Knock Machida the Fuck Out!! Thats all I have to say about it, Don't believe the Machida hype, Shogun will be the best Striker he's ever faced and win by KO

[Pro Killer]

Alrite I've read the thread now and actually agree with most of the things Devante said about Shogun although it still doesnt change the fact he's going to KO Machida, Everyone has weaknesses, If someone looked at all of Machida's fights they could right a page about him and his downfalls, It's not difficult theres no one who 100%perfect all the time in fighting it just doesnt happen.

Shogun by KO! Probably Knees to the Body and Head leaving Machida in great pain and unable to defend himself from the Thai clinch!

[Linkuei]

Machida standup is far more better than Shogun. Not that Shogun sucks but Machida is better at it.

[devante]

Originally Posted by Pro Killer

Alrite I've read the thread now and actually agree with most of the things Devante said about Shogun although it still doesnt change the fact he's going to KO Machida, Everyone has weaknesses, If someone looked at all of Machida's fights they could right a page about him and his downfalls, It's not difficult theres no one who 100%perfect all the time in fighting it just doesnt happen.

Shogun by KO! Probably Knees to the Body and Head leaving Machida in great pain and unable to defend himself from the Thai clinch!

one thing that gives your points credence is the fact NOONE knows how well lyoto takes punishment, the few shots i seen him get w/ caught his attention; as good as he is at avoiding damage, none of us know what he will do when he receives it and that is a big ? mark. At least we know rua evans page vera couture can take it and dish it out; at some point lyoto is gonna have to show us that he too can take it, this might be the fight.

but if lyoto can in fact take it like he gives it, well imma have to say he wins this; we will def find out cus i think at the least shogun will hit him.

[uppercuts21]

Machida,

I'm still trying to figure out why people think Shogun is a great striker. Is he a solid striker? Yes, is he great? Absolutely not.

Machida is going to murder this guy.