[likkuid]

Alright, currently I take Muay Thai (for about 2 months now). The gym is nice, people are friendly, but the teaching is terrible. Students teach you and barely break down the moves. You get a workout, sure, but I want to learn Muay Thai PROPERLY. I've had 8 different teachers so far so you always get something different with each teacher - there's no fluidity. Some teachers will be telling you to do like 'uppercuts' when in reality, many of the people there have never been taught them (like me, whom has been going for 2 months).

At the Muay Thai gym they also offer MMA classes, and I was planning on going to those for a while now, I'm just purchasing the equipment. Once I get a proper jock, I'll go. So..I don't know how well the teaching is in this (MMA), but the classes are very very small and I've only ever seen them do grappling.

I'm not planning on going into MMA proffesionally. Muay Thai is a ring sport I believe, and fighting in the ring is something I really don't care about at the moment, I rather be strong on the streets (but not groin strikes and eye-gouging like Krav, I don't want something like that at all). This is why Kyokushin grabbed my attention - it's Karate but incorporates kickboxing.

I don't want to give up grappling/MMA though (even though I havn't started, I know, but I really want to) - and I believe Kyokushin is completely striking. What I could do is sign up at no-gi JiuJitsu place as well as Kyokushin..what do you think?

What I'm basically wondering is - should I stick with Muay Thai/MMA, or would something like Kyokushin be more beneficial to me? You still have the kickboxing in Kyokushin which is what I like. There's only 2 dojos in Toronto that teach Kyokushin - Osu Kyokushin and nternational Karate Organization Kyokushin Ontario HQ - anyone ever heard of these?

Really don't know what to do here. The teaching there (Muay Thai) is brutal. Classes consist of 25 people or so with 1 student teacher..I can't see myself progressing in technique too much (and I know it's not all teacher, but to me that's a huge part).

Thanks for reading, I'd like to hear your inputs.

[NeoOsiris]

Sticking with MT/MMA will be beneficial for the streets. But really to be good at fighting in streets, you gotta remember anything goes. Lots of people freak out in random fights that come up, doing MT/MMA will teach the instincts and reflexes needed to do well in fights even if they are sport fighting style. Trust me if you have been doing MT/MMA for years and fight a guy with zero training you'd be surprised how much those things come in handy.

[Soulfly]

go to wherever the good teachers are.

Test out a class at the KK gym and see if you like the atmosphere, teachers and style.

[likkuid]

Yeh but I don't know what to expect in a good teacher lol. Not for Kyokushin anyways. My dad took Goju-Ryu for years and years (he was last level brown belt but quit..to start family/business lol). He trained at this place near me for so long and he really wants me to go there, but I really don't want to learn Goju-Ryu (soft-hard translation)..I want to learn Kyokushin (ultimate truth). Sometimes after I have Muay Thai class he'll say to try and hit him and he has learned countless moves to ..pretty much own me. He's extreamly quick and his reflexes r the shiz ;) I can't see myself becoming too good at the gym I currently go to :S

[likkuid]

Originally Posted by NeoOsiris

Sticking with MT/MMA will be beneficial for the streets. But really to be good at fighting in streets, you gotta remember anything goes. Lots of people freak out in random fights that come up, doing MT/MMA will teach the instincts and reflexes needed to do well in fights even if they are sport fighting style. Trust me if you have been doing MT/MMA for years and fight a guy with zero training you'd be surprised how much those things come in handy.

Aren't MMA/MT based for 1-1 combat? Muay Thai..hmm, it's so direct I'd think it wouldn't be as useful as Kyokushin for 2+ opponents. Karate ecompases both that as well as defending yourself against multiple opponents.

[NeoOsiris]

Originally Posted by likkuid

Aren't MMA/MT based for 1-1 combat? Muay Thai..hmm, it's so direct I'd think it wouldn't be as useful as Kyokushin for 2+ opponents. Karate ecompases both that as well as defending yourself against multiple opponents.

Well seeing as how unless he really wants to get into the actual underground seen of streetfighting, then obviously my post should be disregarded if he is planning to be fighting out on the streets or at bars.

[ryouboard]

For the ring or street, Kyokushin is good. Check out K1 vs. Kyokushin.

Certain Kyokushin schools also teach jiu-jitsu, so you may wanna ask them about it.

As for street self-defense, Kyokushin will probably more oreinted towards that area than Muay Thai which is mostly ring fighting.

The biggest factor should be whether or not you get quality instruction for your money and whether or not you'll be able to learn how to properly apply the techniques you learn through practice and sparring. Muay Thai/MMA does not mean that it is the end-all/be-all of martial arts.

[aaron_mag]

Here is my advice, for what it is worth.

First off I'm a TMA guy, just so you know where I'm coming from. And many people will probably say my advice is horrible.

Okay. From what I've seen of MMA classes and MT classes (and I've actually taken some of both) is that they are very good and teach good stuff. Where they seem to fall short, however, is actually taking a ton of interest in the beginner unless he shows some early promise in the ring. The training can be very inconsistent (as you described).

They have A LOT to offer the guy with some experience under his belt. While I don't have the time to really train seriously in MMA I think I'd learn a lot very quickly if I did. The reason I don't is the same reason your dad got out of karate.

But for a beginner there is nothing wrong with a karate class/judo class. In most traditional martial arts class the philosophy is: everything I need to know as a black belt I learned as a white belt. So they really focus on fundamentals as break them down (whether it is a round house kick, a throw, a pin, whatever).

So my advice would be to take a karate type class and a judo class. Enjoy them for a couple of years. Then if you really want to take MMA you can jump in...and while things might seem strange at first I think people from TMAs seem to catch on fast.

Case in point. When I did the MMA my brother was in the class with me. He had a very good wrestling background and for him it was like a duck to water (the grappling portion). The standup, on the other hand, was fairly easy for me to get. The guy who had really good standup in the class, as a matter of fact, was a Kenpo blackbelt. That guy used to knock my brother on his ass when we did standup, but we'd pretty much be even (the Kenpo guy and myself). Grappling, however, my brother schooled us both....

There is nothing wrong with MMA. It is good stuff. But it is a lot for a beginner to digest. If you're young I'd consider judo/karate at this point.

[likkuid]

Thanks for the advice guys - mag especially.

I'm going to visit both of these Kyokushin dojos in my area and see what they're like. I called one of the places and the times are pretty bad. Wednesday (6-7 - okay, that's good), Saturday (9-11 am, very good), and Sunday (9-11 am, impossible for me [I'm at church]). So..that's only 2 classes (or 3 hours a week). BUT..my dad would train with me at home, and although he was a Goju-Ryu practicioner I'm sure a lot of the same things still apply..so he COULD help me with that.

And yeh, funny you guys mention, if I do take Kyokushin I am planning on taking a ground martial art at the same time (because 2 classes a week in Karate is NOT enough for me..I attend about 5 Muay Thai classes a week). I've been looking for a JiuJitsu (BJJ even) place near me, but the only one that's close is a fortune ($100/month). I'm 16, so I can't afford $100/month at the moment haha.

Anyways, one of my friends takes Judo classes and training their is actually free..only problem is, is that he says the class is very high level (mostly black belts) and there's barely any beginners. My friend's huge and he gets beat up bad at these classes, personally, I believe it would be too much for me considering the high levels of the other students..plus I'd prefer JiuJitsu. I'll look around for a JiuJitsu place and hopefully visit at least one of these Kyokushin places this week - I pray to God one of them is good - I'm sick of my MT gym.

[Groucho]

Likkuid

Originally Posted by likkuid

I'm going to visit both of these Kyokushin dojos in my area and see what they're like. I called one of the places and the times are pretty bad. Wednesday (6-7 - okay, that's good), Saturday (9-11 am, very good), and Sunday (9-11 am, impossible for me [I'm at church]). So..that's only 2 classes (or 3 hours a week)...

There are way more KK dojos in t. than that...check this...there is also some Ashihara, a KK subset that includes grappling (pm me on this)

Originally Posted by likkuid

BUT..my dad would train with me at home, and although he was a Goju-Ryu practicioner I'm sure a lot of the same things still apply..so he COULD help me with that. .

KK is based on shotokan and goju-ryu...Pops will more help than you're giving him credit for...

Originally Posted by likkuid

Anyways, one of my friends takes Judo classes and training their is actually free..only problem is, is that he says the class is very high level (mostly black belts) and there's barely any beginners. My friend's huge and he gets beat up bad at these classes, personally, I believe it would be too much for me considering the high levels of the other students..plus I'd prefer JiuJitsu. I'll look around for a JiuJitsu place and hopefully visit at least one of these Kyokushin places this week - I pray to God one of them is good - I'm sick of my MT gym.

Mas Oyama was 4th dan in judo...said it went with KK...DaiDo Juku is basically KK with judo and MT</huge generalization>...check that class out