[bradlee180]

Concerning the vertical or horizontal fist, you also have to consider the difference between punching bare-knuckles and punching with a taped-and-bandaged fist inside a boxing glove.

I learned orthodox boxing techniques first, straight shots palm down, horizontal fist. (and broke the scaphoid bone in my right wrist making a bad landing on the Heavy bag about 14 years ago throwing an onthodox right cross. Never got the bone fixed, and now my wrist is starting to hurt regulary. Surgery and 6 months in a cast if I opt to get it fixed. Arthritis and chronic pain if I don't.)

Years later, I came across Dempsey's book, "Championship Fighting", and the first time I took my place before the Heavy bag, took that falling step and landed the stepping left jolt, I said,
"That's it! That's what I've been looking for!"

I could FEEL the solid impact, and while folks might mistake it for a left jab, it's different, and is a stepping left jolt...thrown with a vertical fist, aiming with the ring finger resulting in a 3 knuckle landing. I wished I'd had that book 20 years ago.

Carefully explains how to maximize the power on the uppercuts and hooks too, and Dempsey always with an eye that these are self-defense skills to protect yourself, not to "win professional boxing matches on points." The self-defense aspect was all-important to me.

It actually feels awkward for me now to throw straight shots at the bag the traditional way with a horizontal fist. I don't feel the impact the way I feel it on straight shots with the vertical fist. The vertical fist is the way the old bare-knuckle fighters of the late 1800's threw straight punches. Throw a high hook to the side of the head the way Mike Tyson used to do, but with bare-knuckles, and you'll suffer multiple breaks in your hand.
I think the techniques changed based on the switch to gloves from bare-knuckles.

[bradlee180]

Jack Dempsey's Championship Fighting:

http://www.freecirclefighting.com/jdbook.pdf

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Nice post, NinjaKiller, thanks for the JManly link.

Here's an interesting link comparing and contrasting old-time bare-knuckle boxing techniques with modern gloved boxing techniques. Worth a read if you're really interested in this stuff.:
From Bare-Knuckles to Modern Boxing

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Very clear film of Dempsey-Willard (can download preview clip.)
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Jack Dempsey: To Victory.
YouTube - Jack Dempsey: To Victory

Dempsey Slideshow:
YouTube - Jack Dempsey Slideshow

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Dempsey's best was 1918 to 1921, and his most destructive year, 1918 as a contender, went unfilmed. The Tunney fights were 1926 and '27.

Gene Tunney,1952- "Jack was no wild slugger.He was an extremely clever fusion of fighter and boxer..Gibbons was one of the all-time great boxers.Yet Gibbons could not outscore Dempsey..Unable to reach this clever opponent with a knockout punch,he(Dempsey) was still a fine enough combination of fighter and boxer to outscore him all the way."

Folks often wrongfully chalk Dempsey up nowadays as a 1-dimensional slugger based on a handful of films, most of them when he was past his prime.

I think he's one of the greatest fighters who ever lived.


It's been a pleasure talking boxing here, fellas.

[fightingrabbit]

consider this thread hijacked.

[Ryukyu Damashi]

Originally Posted by NinjaKilla187

That shit's seriously old-skool.

You were in Oki with the military I take it?

Yeah, I was in the Navy, stationed there from 94-98.

Andy Hug trained at World Ring Gym and also threw his straight left (southpaw) with a vertical fist.

This video shows him training in the Ginowan gym and then at the Naha gym. Notice the verticqal fist punches.
YouTube - Andy Hug Training Montage_by Sportivoz

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by Ryukyu Damashi

Yeah, I was in the Navy, stationed there from 94-98.

Andy Hug trained at World Ring Gym and also threw his straight left (southpaw) with a vertical fist.

This video shows him training in the Ginowan gym and then at the Naha gym. Notice the verticqal fist punches.
YouTube - Andy Hug Training Montage_by Sportivoz

Is that the way you teach your students to do it? What percentage of the camps in Thailand are teaching it that way?

[Ryukyu Damashi]

I teach and throw it both ways. I don't know if any camps teach it that way. I don't think I ever saw any of the Thai trainers teach someone how to throw a straight, most already knew how before they arrived.

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by Ryukyu Damashi

Yeah, I was in the Navy, stationed there from 94-98.

Andy Hug trained at World Ring Gym and also threw his straight left (southpaw) with a vertical fist.

This video shows him training in the Ginowan gym and then at the Naha gym. Notice the verticqal fist punches.
YouTube - Andy Hug Training Montage_by Sportivoz

He's certainly throwing some vertical fist punches, mostly the high looping hook. The jabs and lead shots appear to all be with horizontal fist. He throws a straight body shot that uses the vertical for sure. And I've seen pics of him throwing a high body shot and a left cross with 90 degree canted fist.

These two shows a lot of slows that demonstrate a number of straight crosses all thrown palm down.

YouTube - K1 - Best Of Andy Hug - Part 1 by mart

YouTube - K1 - Best Of Andy Hug - Part 2 by mart

I've not personally seen a MT camp that trained fighters to throw vertical fist jabs and straight crosses to the head but if you tell me yours does I'll take your word for it.

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by fightingrabbit

consider this thread hijacked.

Hey, if your thread is going to get hijacked, who better to do it than the Manassa Mauler?

[clinchman]

Lol, I've always been taught the ring finger and middle finger nuckles, one of the primary reasons being that the two smaller ones are more prone to damage. I'd reccomend wrapping your hands when doing bag work, and if you have to think about how to properly punch someone in a street fight, maybe you should consiter training.

[TGR74]

Originally Posted by fightingrabbit

Try to land all your punches with the ring finger knuckle. That keeps the power line going down from your shoulder, arm, to your wrist aligned.

Try putting your fist against the wall like you punched it. And put each one of your knuckles on the wall. The first and second still allows your wrist to bend. Which breaks the power line going down your arm. Because with punching, you lose power at the joints.

But place your ring knuckle against the wall, and your pinky, ring and middle knuckle land flat and even against the wall and your wrist is straight and sturdy.

And its all aligned by your ring knuckle.


Thats what Jack Dempsey taught me, and thats what i go by.

I'm going to use this as my trump card when my bro insists I use my front two knuckles..it always felt better to land the last 3 instead but I thought maybe I just wasn't doing it right.