Karate and footwork for Kumite, opinions wanted!

Vassago · 01-06-2008, 03:09 PM

Hello, just a question from someone training Wado Ryu and kickboxing regarding kumite competitions in Karate. I am personally not interested in training for it, as they usually teach us the "opposites" of what the japanese highly ranked instructors tell us to do when it comes to for example footwork; bouncing in kumite vs. "flatfooted" as the ideal in the regular training.

Here are two different clips I found, that shows what I'm talking about very clearly.
The first one is a pretty good example of the "bouncers", which I really don't think has much to do with Wado karate:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qWUqFTqHbYk

I was glad to find this other clip though, as it shows practitioners moving far more like what I believe is "right", and these are top guys, so I guess it's possible:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6lZMJcspsZQ

So, it obviously is feasible to use proper movement in karate kumite also, so I wonder why so many teach the jumping? Is it because western teachers are so used to all "our" other sports that teach the bouncy movement as the ideal?

Zach Earles · 01-06-2008, 03:25 PM

i believe your right on the fact that western influnce has an effect on TMA styles taught in the states.

Vassago · 01-07-2008, 11:59 AM

What about most MMA-teachers then? It's all bouncy there too?

Ninjutsu Master · 01-07-2008, 10:04 PM

they teach the bouncing so you can move around better like when you have to quickly change angles to attack your opponent or get in and get out. With the bouncing movement you can do this faster than if you were flat-footed, well at least a lot of people I know move faster bouncing than flat footed.

Vassago · 01-09-2008, 02:50 AM

Here is a clip from Lyoto taken from another thread, which shows the two different methods of movement in the same fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nqbAfzrg-E

thesizz86 · 01-09-2008, 07:27 AM

1st time seeing karate competition...that was surprising. I wasn't expecting
1) Low kicks
2) Punches to the face
3) Throws
Edit -> 4) Hands up/blocking (tkd'er here

)

What are the rules regarding the level of contact? It looked to me like they were pulling their punches a bit.

Regarding the original question, flat feet = impaired mobility. Applies to all sports.

Unless...do you get judged on how "karate style" you look?

Paedde · 01-09-2008, 07:47 AM

That Bouncing is bullshit in my eyes

flat feet too, you need to be on the balls of your feet.

If you are bouncing you can just start moving when you are on the ground again, flat feet should be clear

TheDavid · 01-09-2008, 11:56 AM

That first clip was tragic. I went to watch a point-sparring tournament once and every single person was doing that shit.
Look at Anderson Silva's footwork, he's loose, bouncy a bit, but bouncy for a reason and constantly changing angles...those guys were just hopping around.

The 2nd clip was more akin to TMA that I've been involved in. Very intense and almost like a chess match at times when nobody is doing anything. Limited wasted movement, and solid strikes...albeit pulled a bit.

I think the bouncy stuff is taught not understanding the purpose of what it is supposed to do. When you see good guys like boxers bounce, it is a more logical extension of being light on your feet, on the balls of your feet, and having quick footwork. That's my opinion but differing opinions would be cool. I'm a huge practioner of footwork and stress it to everyone I train with.

Garrett E. · 01-09-2008, 12:06 PM

^^^Agreed. Staying loose on your feet is good when your trying to be mobile, but i can not see for the life of me how those punches would be effective when you are consistantly bouncing and never give yourself time to set up.

Then again I hate point style comps.

TheDavid · 01-09-2008, 12:16 PM

^^^
Yeah, point sparring is stupid. If you're going to compete, anything less than full contact is a waste of time. I had a teacher for about 5 months that loved these things...I think they develop awful habits and don't teach you anything about real fighting. Some would argue, reflexs and distance, timing, etc, but when everybody is just going as fast and with as little power as possible (although some throw good shots but often this is frowned upon), you aren't learning to defending against hard shots which are timed and set up differently than meaningless flicks and pokes.