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Go Back  Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Training Discussion > Standup Technique > Crazy Monkey Boxing + Muay Thai?

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Old 02-15-2008, 10:49 PM   #1 (permalink)

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Crazy Monkey Boxing + Muay Thai?

I'm a tall guy with built legs (not short, but not long either) and a natural ability for power kicking. I've been training off and on with a boxing trainer (no knowledge of MMA, however) whose focus is the peek-a-boo, deep head movement (by deep, I mean when he bobs/weaves, he has me step to the outside of the guy's shoulder). Also got me pretty low in my stance, which I find doesn't exactly help my kicking.

I've seen some Crazy Monkey material, and greatly prefer King's approach to the method...my question here is, how well do you all think it would fit or mesh with Muay Thai kicks, knees, and elbows?
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:57 PM   #2 (permalink)

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It would fit perfectly. Crazy monkey style works very well with thai kicking.

You should definetly persue it in a gym nearby or experiment with the Crazy Monkey concepts with your trainer.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:03 AM   #3 (permalink)

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what the heck is crazy monkey? some form of kung fu?
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Old 02-16-2008, 04:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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what the heck is crazy monkey? some form of kung fu?
It's a style of boxing that works well for mma or street fighting and it's characturised by a head low and elbows high defensive posture (although there's a bit more to it than that), Rampage is the best example I can think of.
IMO it's great combined with good kicks and knees
Here's some vids to check out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njPgVLPTWZk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrewiYRi48o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7w2IUJ7jR8

Last edited by Gavin Smith : 02-16-2008 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:13 PM   #5 (permalink)

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I think I remember Tito Ortiz using this style in one of his fights. My question is: doesn't keeping your hands that high on your head leave your body vulnerable for strikes and leave you more open for a takedown?
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If you keep what Rodney calls a "tight economical structure" using his "hunchback stance"...it takes care of the body pretty nicely...
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:19 PM   #7 (permalink)

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Old 02-18-2008, 06:15 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The most common misconception about the CM method is that when people see the "monkey" stance they think that the practicioners stand like that ALL THE TIME, from the opening bell. That is very far from the truth and one of the things Rodney King stresses at the beginning. You can use any variety of boxing stances while on the outside and shift to the CM defensive posture only when the punches come in.

It's very small but this gif shows exactly how CM should be used. Notice how Rampage goes to that hand posture as soon as the fists are inbound.


Rodney "Chico" King developed, or more accurately adapted this method of boxing defense because he felt that the dropout rate in his striking classes were very high compared to his grappling classes. He saw that he could teach just about everyone who walked through the door, big or small, strong or weak BJJ but of all of those who started out boxing or kickboxing very few stuck with it to reach a competent level of skill. Before he incorporated grappling into his curriculum he had always just taken it as a given that the majority of people trying their hands at combat sports would wash out. After looking at the situation critically he came to the conclusion that traditional methods of teaching striking arts were very much attribute-based - if you didn't have a fair chin, natural agressiveness enough speed and hand-eye coordination, and a willingness to get hit in sparring it would be very hard for you to make any real progress at a beginner. On the other hand BJJ was technique-based and thus didn't demand as much natural inclination for the pursuit.

The CM posture is for those peeps that want to learn how to strike but don't have the natural attributes to bob and weave or beat people to the punch. With a good blocking method to fall back on people gain confidence that they can spar without getting hit in the face too much or wobble. Some guys continue to use even after they become competent, but you can also see the method as a sort of "training wheels" - as you gain skills and confidence and get used to exchanging strikes you can transition into more diverse ways of not getting hit and counterstriking.

That's basically why Rodney developed his version of this stance. Please note that he has never tried to take credit for inventing it out of thin air, variations of this type of defense have been around in boxing (and probably Muay Thai too) for a long time under a variety of names. Some people refer to it as The Wall, others just see it as a modified version of the peekaboo defense. Rodney just adapted it to MMA and self-defense.
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The most common misconception about the CM method is that when people see the "monkey" stance they think that the practicioners stand like that ALL THE TIME, from the opening bell. That is very far from the truth and one of the things Rodney King stresses at the beginning. You can use any variety of boxing stances while on the outside and shift to the CM defensive posture only when the punches come in.

It's very small but this gif shows exactly how CM should be used. Notice how Rampage goes to that hand posture as soon as the fists are inbound.


Rodney "Chico" King developed, or more accurately adapted this method of boxing defense because he felt that the dropout rate in his striking classes were very high compared to his grappling classes. He saw that he could teach just about everyone who walked through the door, big or small, strong or weak BJJ but of all of those who started out boxing or kickboxing very few stuck with it to reach a competent level of skill. Before he incorporated grappling into his curriculum he had always just taken it as a given that the majority of people trying their hands at combat sports would wash out. After looking at the situation critically he came to the conclusion that traditional methods of teaching striking arts were very much attribute-based - if you didn't have a fair chin, natural agressiveness enough speed and hand-eye coordination, and a willingness to get hit in sparring it would be very hard for you to make any real progress at a beginner. On the other hand BJJ was technique-based and thus didn't demand as much natural inclination for the pursuit.

The CM posture is for those peeps that want to learn how to strike but don't have the natural attributes to bob and weave or beat people to the punch. With a good blocking method to fall back on people gain confidence that they can spar without getting hit in the face too much or wobble. Some guys continue to use even after they become competent, but you can also see the method as a sort of "training wheels" - as you gain skills and confidence and get used to exchanging strikes you can transition into more diverse ways of not getting hit and counterstriking.

That's basically why Rodney developed his version of this stance. Please note that he has never tried to take credit for inventing it out of thin air, variations of this type of defense have been around in boxing (and probably Muay Thai too) for a long time under a variety of names. Some people refer to it as The Wall, others just see it as a modified version of the peekaboo defense. Rodney just adapted it to MMA and self-defense.

Great post, man. Have you been to any of his seminars?
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Great post, man. Have you been to any of his seminars?
Nah, but Matt Thornton ran through the basics of CM along with the rationale behind it at a seminar I went to in 2004. CM is the first thing he teaches to any grappler that is thinking about transitioning to MMA, because it's helps tremendously in closing the distance and getting the clinch.
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