[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by mvisit1

Maybe because before you learn to be a fighting machine, you need to learn balance, coordination, flexibility, discipline, and respect. Those worthless TMA's aren't half bad at helping people with those.

Golly, I bet it would just be *impossible* to learn balance, coordination, flexibility, discipline, respect AND fighting techniques that actually work. I mean, JAYSUS MAN, could such a martial art even exist??

[Dog Soldier]

Honestly now what constitutes 'techniques that work'?

If you want something that works for real combat get a CCW permit then learn to shoot and carry a gun. Real combat means weapons in almost all cases.

For sports the rules dictate what does and does not work. IIRC Boxing in ancient Greece involved both fighters sitting on rocks with there noses touching. Those were the rules.

[ryouboard]

How did this turn from an honest question about different standup styles to inevitable TMA bashing? Oh yeah. I forgot I was on Sherdog.

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by ryouboard

How did this turn from an honest question about different standup styles to inevitable TMA bashing? Oh yeah. I forgot I was on Sherdog.

What is this "bash" you speak of? Dude asked an honest question and I gave an honest answer. Why the near cultish devotion to techniques that don't work?

Traditional Karate is great for a fun hobby and a little costumed role playing at being an ancient Samurai or some such. If you are under the impression that Age Uke and Gedan Barai can actually be used against a trained opponent, please take your video camera down to your local MT or Kickboxing gym and videotape yourself using these techniques to defend yourself.

Post the video here.

Thanks,

Ninja

[GrazZ]

Originally Posted by mvisit1

Maybe because before you learn to be a fighting machine, you need to learn balance, coordination, flexibility, discipline, and respect. Those worthless TMA's aren't half bad at helping people with those.

well sure, but the amount of time you have to put in to them to get the said benefits is completely disproportional to other things you can do to gain those things at a fraction of the time....if you want to do them for the discipline and respect aspects i agree 100% they are great for that, but they are lacking in the realism department

[mvisit1]

Originally Posted by NinjaKilla187

Golly, I bet it would just be *impossible* to learn balance, coordination, flexibility, discipline, respect AND fighting techniques that actually work. I mean, JAYSUS MAN, could such a martial art even exist??

I can't speak for ALL schools, but from what I've seen at schools that teach those arts that ACTUALLY work, like where I train MT & BJJ for example, I'm the only one that calls the instructor sir, bows before I step on & off the mat, doesn't curse during class, etc...But I go there because the instructors & their senior students are top notch, have trained with the best, and have vast amounts of knowledge & competition experience

Take away the word Mixed from MMA and you are left with just Martial Arts. I would love to see more people practicing these REAL arts that ACTUALLY work carry themselves like true Martial Artists. Ever watch The Ultimate Fighter? Those damn kids give people like me a bad name. I don't walk around bragging about how I can whoop everyone's ass and threaten to fight anyone that looks at me the wrong way. I like how in TMA's you don't learn certain things in the very beginning, because you don't deserve to. I learned the North/South choke & rolled on my first day of BJJ, and did a lot of boxing/counterpunching drills on my first day of MT.

If I was an asshole with bad intentions, you WOULD NOT want to step on my shoe in a bar.

[IMAF#1]

Originally Posted by NinjaKilla187

Shotokan is best for standing in front of a mirror practicing stances and defensive techniques that will never work in combat or competition, as well as doing ancient Okinawan Folk Dances known as "kata" where you have another outlet for practicing techniques that won't work outside the dojo. (I have a BB in Shotokan, lucky me...) If you are looking for old school traditional Karate it is A+, for fighting it is C- (see Lyoto Machida for a very notable exception to this, though)

Kenpo is like Shotokan except with a pseudo chinese or (allegedly) Hawaiian influence and black Gi with more corny patches. There are several different flavors. The tend to spar more than Shotokan which is better for fighting. They get in lots of pissing contests about which school/lineage is the more "authentic". They teach goofy "secret" pressure point shit that everyone else in the world already knows about and doesn't work well anyway. They seem to think that "flurries" (also known as combinations everywhere else in the combat world) are some kind of original technique, but at least they do teach combos. The footwork is marginally more useful than TMAs that don't spar much. For TMA I give it about a B. For fighting about a C+.

Kyokushin was the original bare knuckle full contact style started by Mas Oyama. It has also split into several styles. Back in the day it was the shizzle. After waaaaaay too many hand and facial injuries the main style of Kyokushin banned closed fist punches to the head in competition, resulting in it becoming sort of like half-assed Tae Kwon Do. If you can find a Kyokushin Dojo that still works punches to the head it is good stuff. Some of the offshoots also incorporate Judo (Kudo) and have their own system of MMA competition. Hard to find in the US though. For TMA I give it a B+ and fighting a solid B (assuming they are teaching sufficient hand techniques and defense).

If you want good standup and don't care about oriental mysticism, role playing, and wearing costumes try kickboxing or muay thai. Thats just my two cents...

Wow, that is one of the most ignoret posts I've ever seen. I take it you must of spent years and years training in these arts and seeing the results, how else could you say so much BS about these arts. Sereously dude grow up and know about something before you start talking trash about it.

[warrior of ruin]

dont quote me on this one but from what i remember of my humble beginings in martial arts.. shotokan karate was rooted in its stances. i recall many lessons involving balance work and trying to have a low centre of gravity... but thats going back maybe 9 years..

[ShotokanBB'n'MB]

Originally Posted by NinjaKilla187

Nice try.

I studied Shotokan only under ethnically Japanese Sensei's (why is this so important to Karateka?) who were once or twice removed from Funakoshi O'Sensei himself, including a fellow named Tsutomu Oshima. I assume you've heard of him. If not borrow a copy of Karate-Do Kyohan from your own Sensei and crack it open. He'll be the guy in all the pictures.

Actually I dont give a crap if you trained with Funokoshi himself.If you felt like the techniques were worthless than maybe they were. My school and my sensei are an american branch of shotokan called seiei bujitsu kai. this translates to something roughly along the lines of "Elite Military Way" and it also means that if your dojo cant fight then we dont think your sensei is worth a crap. dont get me wrong. fighting isnt everything. but if your training doesnt prepare you for a fight then what good is it. Our kata, our self defense, our training as a whole is for kumite. and thats why we do reasonably well in it. we dont fight point sparring matches. We fight ippon matches where we try to knock the piss out of our opponent. Body is full contact head shots are good so long as no bleeding or swelling

[ShotokanBB'n'MB]

Originally Posted by IMAF#1

Wow, that is one of the most ignoret posts I've ever seen. I take it you must of spent years and years training in these arts and seeing the results, how else could you say so much BS about these arts. Sereously dude grow up and know about something before you start talking trash about it.

hey now for all I went and stated a different opinion than ninja I agree with him on moast of the TMA's out there. The main reason why I argue with him is because I believe that there are those of us out there who train in some good dojo's and dont deserve to be lumped in the the vast majority. This doesnt mean he is wrong. He is just looking at it from a point of view that emphasis's the bad parts of shotokan.