[RJ Powell]

well, i guess we are on the same page here then. I have immense pride and for my Kyokushin and TKD roots. I just assumed you were one of those loony TMA diehards i guess. I also respect both sides of the argument.

i was arguing more along the lines of MMA and Muay Thai competition anyway.

[mvisit1]

Originally Posted by RJ Powell

well, i guess we are on the same page here then. I have immense pride and for my Kyokushin and TKD roots. I just assumed you were one of those loony TMA diehards i guess. I also respect both sides of the argument.

i was arguing more along the lines of MMA and Muay Thai competition anyway.

My roots are Shorin Ryu and TKD. When I decided I wanted to eventually take on Amateur MMA, I started going to the best Muay Thai & BJJ Gyms I could find nearby (2 separate ones). I'm going to try my hand at a few Amateur Muay Thai bouts and some grappling tourneys before I transition to MMA though.

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by devante

im just asking isnt it the same w/every art; not saying they aren't more effective as a base are, but bjj-boxing-judo-kickboxing-muay thai-sambo- all have to be tailored. Whether its to mma or its to self def, anytime u use them in a diff environment or against diff stylist u have to modify or adjust.

now diff arts need less modification; BUT all arts have to be modified, that is why we have bjj- sport bjj-self def bjj-same thing w/judo and various other arts.


but i agree w/ur point-not trying to step on toes-but do u see mine

I think we are mostly in agreement. The question is, what is more efficient, a system that needs 90% modification to be effective or a system that needs 10% modification to be effective?

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by ShotokanBB'n'MB

Dudes Ninjakiller aside I really have to say that the effectiveness of your style has a lot to do with how your taught. I personally think his sensei blew but thats just my opinion. here is my weigh in

Nice try.

I studied Shotokan only under ethnically Japanese Sensei's (why is this so important to Karateka?) who were once or twice removed from Funakoshi O'Sensei himself, including a fellow named Tsutomu Oshima. I assume you've heard of him. If not borrow a copy of Karate-Do Kyohan from your own Sensei and crack it open. He'll be the guy in all the pictures.

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by mvisit1

I've made points if you go back and look. Also, if you go back and look he DOES insinuate that TMA's are worthless, whether or not he ACTUALLY comes out and says it.

I do not say that TMA's are worthless. I say that they are inefficient for learning techniques that actually work in combat or competition. There are (much) faster and more effective ways to gain combat skills.

I collect antique weapons. I have some that I think are really cool. I read and research about them. I enjoy owning and collecting them in part because of the history behind them. They were state of the art war fighting weaponry when they were designed and manufactured.

I don't, however, suffer from the delusion that they are the equal of modern weapons systems.

If you enjoy the history and traditions of TMA, including learning techniques that are outdated and don't work in combat with opponents trained in other systems, then more power to you. Enjoy your hobby for what it is. But recognize and accept that you are collecting antiques, and don't come around telling us all that your Model T is going to outrun my 2008 Mustang.

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by mvisit1

You can't spar ALL of the time. Especially not in the beginning. Masterful basic techniques are built through drill and repitition, much like those katas everyone hates. I hate the stigma around the word kata. What is a kata but a series of moves memorized in a particular order and practiced over and over? You do have 15-18 count series' that you drill in Muay Thai, don't you?

There's a huge difference. Much of the technique in Karate Kata don't work for combat and aren't used even in school Kumite at Shotokan Dojo's. Shadow boxing and Muay Thai drills involve techniques that do work and are used exactly as rehearsed when fighting or competing. Self study drills are a necessary practice methodology for anything that can benefit from muscle memory. The problem comes when you are "muscle memorizing" wrong techniques.

The only value to Gedan Barai, Age Uki and numerous other traditional techniques is in appreciating the history and culture behind them.

[RJ Powell]

despite his complete bluntness, i am in agreement with ninjakiller. He sure doesn't sugarcoat anything he says.

[T.J.T]

Originally Posted by NinjaKilla187

...outrun my 2008 Mustang.

All this great information and you lost of of your credit/respect with those 4 words

[omgitsrick]

Kyokushin seems to be the most functional in a real fight, which isn't really saying much considering a majority of dojo's just do kata infront of a mirror all day now.

[NinjaKilla187]

Originally Posted by RJ Powell

despite his complete bluntness, i am in agreement with ninjakiller. He sure doesn't sugarcoat anything he says.

Not a Ford man, I take it?