[Darwinist]

Originally Posted by DrSatanDracula

Darwinist:

Thanks for the lengthy p ost.

I ask you this: How is this to be held as objectionable when any political movement will seek the concrete manifestation of its aims? The Republican and Democratic parties stated goals are the take over of the government under their principles. Conservative and Labour policy in the UK is the same. Scientology has a political movement that comes from its principles. How is this objectionable?

If you feel that allowing a group whose ultimate aim is the abolishment or assimilation of all government agencies, all political parties, cessation of election and the rule of law(apart from that meted out by the group itself) to exist in your society, then that's fine by me.

My point is that there is ample evidence in Hubbard's own writings of what he sees as "the goal" for Scientology, and that goal is in direct violation of the German Constitution. It's as clear as day that that is the case. It's not like the Germans are making this shit up...

Now if you have a problem with that, you can petition the German people to change their constition, but as it stands today they not only have the right, but also the duty to ban Scientology.

Remember, we are talking Germany here. Not the US. Your constitution does not apply.

You are talking about right and wrong from an american perspective.

Originally Posted by DrSatanDracula

I would also make the embarrassing point that the relation of anti-Scientologists to Radical Atheist discredits many anti-Scientologist positions. The vitriol against religious groups expressed in Radical Atheist literature is virtually indistinguishable from Hubbard's anti-anti-Scientologist points here. Of course, one can be an anti-scientologist and not part of Radical Atheism. One might adopt a Christian perspective, whose goals have always been the take over of government, too...

I have absolutely no idea whatsoever where you get this vibe from. My(and most other critics) opposition to Scientology has nothing to do with faith or freedom to worship or live according to whatever philosophy you like. It has everything to do with their stated goal of creating a world where nothing exists which they do not control completely, and their utter visciousness in trying to grab as much temporal influence as humanly possible.

I can understand where you are coming from though. Many people who think that "Radical Atheists" are coming to take their bibles away in the near future tend to defend scientology in a knee-jerk fashion just because they say they "believe", and believers of all stripes need to stick together against the Angry Atheists Fascists.

Well let me tell you something. You are far more likely to be stripped of your right to worship by a government ruled by Scientology than secularism. After all, all the world's religions are just engrams, or fake memories implanted by aliens 75 million years ago, Jesus was a pedophile, and Mohammad was a merchant who made up all his visions to increase commerce in his home town(straight from Hubbard's mouth).

Hubbard on Jesus:

Note: the Church claims that the OT VIII documents are forgeries. This has for some time been the official CoS-statement; probably because OT8 includes some very strange theories about Jesus and many real churches were outraged because of it.

See for instance this quote from (Hubbard's?) OTVIII:

For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on, let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads. It is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal, so deep and insidious is the biologic implanting.

It is a good joke that the Galactic Confederacy is associated with the Serpent in the Garden, the beast and other emissaries of the "Prince of Darkness". Yet in certain passages and esoteric interpretations of the Bible (much of which has been taken out and effectively suppressed for centuries) as well as the Cabbalah, the truth reveals itself quite nicely for the clever and the ungullible.

Because of this fragment OT8 has become known as the "Jesus is a pedophile"-OT. Until recently, CoS was adamant that OT8 was a forgery.

Until recently. When Arnaldo Lerma's house was raided by CoS, they took his computer. Under the writ of seizure, they were allowed only to identify files that were copyrighted by CoS / RTC. A CoS lawyer - Kendrick Moxon, expert attorney and a senior OT - was asked to supervise this, and guess what: he identified OT8 as an RTC copyright and therefore, as a church scripture.