International Putin and Xi Jinping pledge new era of Sino-Russian 'no limits' relationship. Tell US to "Know your role, and stop meddling"

[Rod1]

First, we need to distinguish between tactical and strategic nuclear devices. All ICBMs and SLBMs are strategic nuclear missiles, if any of them are launched by either side it automatically results in a full launch of ALL nuclear devices by ALL nuclear powers. There is no such thing as a limited strike when strategic nuclear devices are involved, if one flies they all fly. All the major nuclear powers know this which is why none of them will attempt a decapitation strike with subs parked off the coast, this is a myth from the earlier days of the Cold War when response times were much slower and there was actually a decent chance we could whack the leadership before they got their own missiles in the air.

What the Russians were, and are concerned about is tactical or theatre level missiles such as Tomahawks and the old Pershing series missiles. According to doctrine they were meant for use against Soviet armies if they invaded Europe and threatened to overrun NATO forces, but they could easily be targeted on Moscow and St. Petersburg as well which is a serious problem for Soviet decision making. If one of those missiles is launched the Soviets would have maybe 20-30 minutes to figure out where it's going and how to respond, if it's aimed at something on the battlefield the Soviets will launch their own tactical nukes, if it's aimed at Moscow or St. Pete's then things get messy and there's a good chance they'll launch all their strategic nukes in response. By cutting the reaction time down to 5-10 minutes, the Russians no longer have enough time to figure out a proper response which greatly increases the risk of an all out launch of all nuclear devices.

But there are no nuke capable cruise missiles in former warsaw countries.

 

[aerius]

But there are no nuke capable cruise missiles in former warsaw countries.

Yet. And we damn well better hope it stays that way. Problem is Poland & Sweden are now offering to host nukes, and the Baltic countries have been making noises about that too.

 

[Rod1]

Yet. And we damn well better hope it stays that way. Problem is Poland & Sweden are now offering to host nukes, and the Baltic countries have been making noises about that too.

But your argument was that Russian problem with NATO was nukes, it was never about nukes because there never were nukes and Russian concerns about NATO expansion were properly addressed by NATO.

That's why Finland and Sweden were not in NATO and there was no NATO nukes in former warsaw pact nations.

This of course changed with Ukraine invasion, but that's NATO responding to Russian aggression, not the other way around.

 

[aerius]

But your argument was that Russian problem with NATO was nukes, it was never about nukes because there never were nukes and Russian concerns about NATO expansion were properly addressed by NATO.

That's why Finland and Sweden were not in NATO and there was no NATO nukes in former warsaw pact nations.

This of course changed with Ukraine invasion, but that's NATO responding to Russian aggression, not the other way around.

There were always threats from NATO to place nukes as close to Russia as possible. From Russia's viewpoint, whether we agree with it or not, threats are bad enough.

 

[Rod1]

There were always threats from NATO to place nukes as close to Russia as possible. From Russia's viewpoint, whether we agree with it or not, threats are bad enough.

Of course the threat that NATO would react to Russian aggression, that's the point i was making.

Russia saw NATO as a big threat to its imperial ambitions.

 

[Hdfi]

Of course the threat that NATO would react to Russian aggression, that's the point i was making.

Russia saw NATO as a big threat to its imperial ambitions.

And if Russia puts nukes on Cuba, how do you think the US would react?

 

[Rod1]

And if Russia puts nukes on Cuba, how do you think the US would react?

Russia has put nukes in Kaliningrad since forever.